Talk:民主共和制
关于民主共和制,存在造假内容
[编辑]你们看看,你们这维基百科有多少造假的内容 我看到你们这些维基百科写的内容,看得我头痛,所以我决定,慢慢得给维基百科来一个大大大的整改
- 在美国,共和制度本身就是一种民主形式,这一概念从美国建国之初就很普遍。约翰·亚当斯(John Adams,1784年)提出了民主共和与代议制民主(特指当时英国还不成熟的君主立宪制,并非美国现在的选举人制度)之间的差异、好与坏,并把民主共和的概念广泛流传出去。在他的理论中认为,一个简单的代议制民主国家中,没有任何决定是可以接受的,因为这些“代议代表”有些只是旧贵族的遗留,并非真民选,真正的民选制度必定要征得多数人的同意、尽可能扩大投票的范围方可成立。
这一部分也没有任何来源,估计是维基百科,哪个用户自己乱编的吧,一查就知道了
我查询了很大有关于约翰·亚当斯的相关书籍,以及资料,事实上,亚当斯从来就没有提出过民主共和,甚至是华盛顿,杰佛逊等到美国的国父,他们都没有提出过任何 这句话很扯淡,美国的国父们自己就非常反感民主,而非常推崇共和制,他们从来就没有提到什么民主共和,他们提出的是宪政共和,注意是“宪政共和”
而且,说“这一概念从美国建国之初就很普遍”,这也很扯,美国的宪法,甚至是最开始开国的制宪人们,也没有说过自己是什么,民主共和的国家,甚至在制宪大会上,把民主骂成什么样,大家应该自己清楚吧?这一概念哪里来的?哪里编的?
噢还有,附上美国国父们讲得话,我还贴心的给你们附上来源,还随便加上页数,你们说我多良心?
约翰·亚当斯:[1]
请记住,民主体制永远不会持续很长时间。它很快就会耗尽自己,自我消耗,最终导致自我毁灭。迄今为止,从未有一个民主体制没有自杀的例子
亚历山大·汉密尔顿:[2]:105
我们现在正在构建一个共和政府。真正的自由既不在专制统治下找到,也不在民主的极端体制中,而在于温和的政府中。那些打算建立一个稳健的共和政府的人,应该谨慎地考虑另一种政府的界限。只要公职对所有人敞开,没有设立宪政等级,那就是纯粹的共和主义。但是如果我们过于偏向民主,很快就会演变成君主制。
托马斯·杰佛逊:[3]:235
实施民主统治的地方除了暴民统治之外,什么都没有,因为51%的民众就可以剥夺49%的民众所有权利
本杰明·富兰克林:[4]:333
民主必须超越两只狼和一只羊投票决定晚餐的情景
--YOintment|三民主义统一中国 2023年10月4日 (三) 04:36 (UTC)
关于民主共和制,存在造假内容:第2话
[编辑]让我们接下来看下一个维基人编造的内容
- 加州大学洛杉矶分校法学院的尤金·沃洛赫(Eugene Volokh)指出,美国的民主共和制体现了立宪制之下的多变性,该国的地方性决定(通常范围为“州”)可以通过直接的民主程序而得出,但其它外交、财政、军事性的决定(通常范围为“整个联邦”)需要由民主选举产生的代表来得出。联邦宪法把美国的民主简单的分成了两个部分:一个“州”之内的全民民主,和一个“联邦”之内的代议民主。与许多大型政治系统一样,任何单独的术语都无法完全描述美国目前的政治制度,美国总统又是依靠“州”与“联邦”之内的双重投票合作而产生的,并不隶属于任何一个单独的民主框架之下
这位未知的维基人引用的是一个来自华盛顿邮报的Eugene Volokh [1],是,有来源,不错不错,比第一话的好那么一点,但是这个是曲解来源,为什么呢?你们看这个标题:
Opinion Is the United States of America a republic or a democracy?
再看看这个内容的开头部分:
I often hear people argue that the United States is a republic, not a democracy. But that’s a false dichotomy. A common definition of “republic” is, to quote the American Heritage Dictionary, “A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them” — we are that. A common definition of “democracy” is, “Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives” — we are that, too.
然后再看看这个来源的其中一部分:
To be sure, in addition to being a representative democracy, the United States is also a constitutional democracy, in which courts restrain in some measure the democratic will. And the United States is therefore also a constitutional republic. Indeed, the United States might be labeled a constitutional federal representative democracy. But where one word is used, with all the oversimplification that this necessary entails, “democracy” and “republic” both work. Indeed, since direct democracy — again, a government in which all or most laws are made by direct popular vote — would be impractical given the number and complexity of laws that pretty much any state or national government is expected to enact, it’s unsurprising that the qualifier “representative” would often be omitted. Practically speaking, representative democracy is the only democracy that’s around at any state or national level.
所以看懂了没有,给不会英语的朋友们讲一下,各位,人家在新闻上讨论,美国到底是不是民主国家,这位尤金·沃洛赫觉得美国是民主国家,而且是代議民主(representative democracy),也可以是宪政民主(constitutional democracy) 我不知道是哪个维基人,把人家讨论,美国是不是民主国家的来源弄到“民主共和制”的,人家在讨论,自由民主制,宪政民主,代議民主,到这里就变成了民主共和(Democratic republic)??
给写这段内容的维基人的留言:
这段内容,你改下,放到代议民主,自由民主制,改成尤金·沃洛赫认为美国XXXXX,我都算你至少看得懂英文,而且,懂该怎么写了,你把这个写到民主共和,我真的是看得,哇,做得太好了,下次不要再这么干了,别看今天改条目,玩得欢,到时候修正条目,坟头草都两段高了
--YOintment|三民主义统一中国 2023年10月4日 (三) 05:26 (UTC)
- ^ From John Adams to John Taylor, 17 December 1814. Founders Online. [2023-10-04] (英语).
Remember Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes exhausts and murders itself. There never was a Democracy Yet, that did not commit suicide. It is in vain to Say that Democracy is less vain, less proud, less selfish, less ambitious or less avaricious than Aristocracy or Monarchy. It is not true in Fact and no where appears in history. Those Passions are the same in all Men under all forms of Simple Government, and when unchecked, produce the same Effects of Fraud Violence and Cruelty. When clear Prospects are opened before Vanity, Pride, Avarice or Ambition, for their easy gratification, it is hard for the most considerate Phylosophers and the most conscientious Moralists to resist the temptation. Individuals have conquered themselves, Nations and large Bodies of Men, never.
- ^ Jonathan Elliot. 《The Debates, Resolutions, and Other Proceedings, in Convention, on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution: Supplementary to the state Conventions》. 1830 (英语).
We are now forming a republican government. Real liberty is neither found in despotism or the extremes of democracy, but in moderate governments. Those who mean to form a solid republican government, ought to proceed to the confinges of another government. As long as offices are open to all men, and no constitutional rank is established, it is pure republicanism. But if we incline too much to democracy, we shall soon shoot into a monarchy.
- ^ Ken Schoolland. 《The Adventures of Jonathan Gullible: A Free Market Odyssey》. Small Business Hawaii. 2004. ISBN 978-0958457323 (英语).
A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51 percent of the people may take away the rights of the other 49
- ^ James Bovard. 《Lost Rights: The Destruction of American Liberty》. St. Martin's Publishing Group. 1994. ISBN 0312103514 (英语).
Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner